Rank: New Member
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Joined: 12/13/2007
Posts: 108
Location: Bellingham
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The debate over "torture" just isn't going to go away, and I don't see any easy answers to it right now. I put the term in quotes, because there isn't even agreement on what torture is. It would seem a logical starting place to get a definition for the term that we can all agree on, just as we can all look at that silver thing on the bathroom wall and agree, "That's a mirror," and the circular black thing on the side of my car... "That's a tire." We don't seem to be able to say, "That's torture" and "That's not."
I'd like to get some insights from you regarding what is and is not torture. I'm really encouraging realism here, because there are things I endured in college (hazing) that were quite unpleasant and humiliating, but I don't consider myself as having been tortured. Ask any soldier who has completed boot camp if they believe they have been tortured. So, I don't want to hear any drivel about name calling or underwear on heads as being torturous behavior.
There are a couple of key elements that seem relevant to me. First, there are those who say torture doesn't get reliable information. This is, of course, demonstrably false. We have documented cases where it has done precisely that. However, I have to believe that it would be possible to apply a substantial enough pain level to get Al-Zawahiri to say Jihadists are planning to attack Hooterville next Wednesday. So, if it is used, there has to be some wisdom applied.
Now, on the other side of this, anyone who is being intellectually honest will agree, we need to get vital intelligence from people captured in battle, and just asking them nicely isn't going to get it done. There has to be some means of coercing the information out of them. It's not just a good idea, or a "nice to have." This is essential.
These people want us dead, and are actively plotting a means of making that desire a reality. It is critical to learn about their operations, targets, time lines, locations of weapons caches, names and locations of leaders, times and places of meetings, etc. This strikes me as more important than seeing to it that they are warm, comfortable, and well fed. I think, rather, that they should be uncomfortable, fearful, and unable to adapt to their circumstance. The question at hand is, apart from torture, how does this happen?
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Rank: New Member
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Joined: 1/9/2008
Posts: 139
Location: Zeta Reticuli
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It may be percieved as horrible by many, including presidential candidate John McCain, and many of our soldiers who have experinced NVA and even more recent prison camps. It seems that there is never any outrage by the MSM and progressive folks when Wahhabist Jihadists slowly slice the throats of men, women and children, but there is plenty of outrage if our intel folks get caught waterbaording some murdering enemy of the U.S. I know that we as the beacon of truth and justice and liberty should take the high road when it comes to any overt or covert actions and "data collection" even when it comes to non-citizens. However, I think that in order to protect American citizens from those foreign operators who wish us death and destruction, there comes a time when the military interrogation techniques may not be effective or timely. I'm not saying to throw out the constitution and Bill of Rights, but do those apply to non-citizens? We are not policing the folks who want a world-wide cailphate. We are in a war that they declared on us. My thought to our intelligence folks is be careful out there, and stop taking pictures and video footage in the first place...what were they thinking?... I gotta think that there may some "fictional-type" fellows that know the risk of oversight and documentation, in a word: Mitch Rapp!
You better laugh at yourself, Everyone else is. www.parkenfarkergroup.blogspot.com
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Rank: New Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 1/9/2008
Posts: 139
Location: Zeta Reticuli
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Oh yeah, and one more thing... Would feeding them hot dogs, pork and beans, and bacon and eggs be considered torture? How about watching cartoons of Daffy Duck and Porky Pig? All seriousness aside, I think that interrogation techniques used by law enforcement are things that our current enemy agents have already prepared and trained for. The so-called Abu Graib torture that had Amnesty International, the Main Stream Media and Dennis Kucinich apostles up in arms were milder than most college hazing practices. Waterboarding is the current torture topic of the day, and no-one has been killed by it yet. We cannot tie the hands of our intelligence community when it comes to interrogating our enemies during wartime. Again, if they get caught using non-conventional techniques, then they made a tactical error and should be more cautious next interrogation, so to speak. The average American really does not want to know how we stop the bad guys, just that we stopped them.
You better laugh at yourself, Everyone else is. www.parkenfarkergroup.blogspot.com
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