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Roundabouts - Bigger issue than expected. Options
DJGray
Posted: Friday, April 11, 2008 10:03:58 AM

Rank: Administration
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Joined: 1/11/2008
Posts: 256
Location: Bellingham, WA
Yesterday, I served as "guest host" for the Bonner & Brooks program on KGMI. The topic we were supposed to be discussing was the Level of Service for our local roads, especially on Northwest and Lakeway drive.

At one point in the discussion, I mentioned the current plan to place a roundabout at the off-ramp/on-ramp intersection of Northwest, just north of I-5, out front of Chambers Chevrolet. There is a great deal of congestion at the intersection because those southbound on Northwest have a stop sign which gives the right-of-way to those traveling northbound who intend to veer left onto I-5. Those at the stop sign are required to wait because the majority of those traveling north on NW Ave. do not signal their intentions. Under the current plan, the roundabout will replace the stop sign, allowing for a continuous flow of traffic through the area.

Well, with the mere mention of this planned roundabout, the phone lines lit up! The discussion of LOS disappeared from the radar, and we talked roundabouts for the next 45 minutes. I was amazed at how much interest this generated. We had more calls than we could take in the time alloted.

There seems to be a fair amount of apprehension regarding these roundabouts, and I'll admit that at first, I was skeptical about them. I could not imagine how they could possibly be safer and more efficient than the 4-way stops they replace. But, I always try to be open-minded and open to persuasion on most issues, and after giving the roundabouts a fair shot, I'll say here, as I said on the radio, "I love them!" They are indeed much more efficient than the 4-way stops, but I don't believe yet that they are safer. I say that, not as an indictment of the roundabouts themselves, but of us as drivers who haven't yet grasped the rules of the roundabout.

I thought it might be helpful to toss some "rules of the road" regarding roundabouts in here. Single lane roundabouts (like the one at the airport) are easy. Just stay to the right, and yield to traffic already in the roundabout. What becomes difficult, are the multi-lane roundabouts like those on Cordata by the Community College.

The Rules:
1. Don't panic! The roundabouts are not as complex as they might seem.

2. Yield! As one caller to Bonner and Brooks put it, "When you are IN the roundabout, you are GOD!" While that may be a bit irreverent, her point is well taken. If you are IN the roundabout, you do NOT yield to those who are waiting to ENTER the roundabout. What that means to those entering, if it is clear to your left, you can go without stopping. If it is NOT clear, you must yield to those who are already there.

3. Pick your lane with care! This is the one that confuses most people. Essentially, if you want to turn left you MUST be in the left lane. If you want to do a U-turn, you MUST be in the left lane. If you want to turn right, you MUST be in the right lane. If you are continuing straight through the intersection, either lane is fine.

4. NEVER, EVER, EVER change lanes while in a roundabout! If you picked the wrong lane, just deal with the error by following the rules of the roundabout.

5. Signal. Signal LEFT to get into the roundabout unless you are making an immediate right turn, and signal RIGHT when you are leaving the roundabout. The right turn signal should be done when you pass the exit just prior to the one you will be using. If that is not clear, look at the diagrams below.


That's essentially it, Folks. The only trouble I've experienced with a roundabout is when someone in the right lane doesn't understand that they cannot turn left from that lane. I was in the left lane continuing straight north on Cordata, and almost plowed into a driver who turned left in front of me. In an uncharacteristic moment, I did not get upset about it. The roundabouts are confusing for many, and it is just going to take some time.

For the more visually oriented learner, these illustrations may help.

Turning Right:
If you are turning right, you must be in the right lane. Signal right all the way through the turn.


Turning Left or U-Turn:
If you are turning left, or doing a U-turn, you must be in the left lane. Signal left to enter the roundabout, and then signal right to exit. Start your exit signal just after passing the exit prior to the one you will be using.


Continuing Straight:
This is the one that causes problems for most people. It is critical to note that the Blue car CANNOT turn right from its current position. The red car will hit it. The Red car CANNOT turn left from its current position. The blue car will hit it.




Mark Twain wrote:

A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is putting its shoes on.

  • Mark Twain


  • Baron Miller wrote:

    Grace ruins the idea that you are fully in charge.

  • Baron Miller



  • Brat
    Posted: Friday, April 11, 2008 12:07:58 PM

    Rank: New Member
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    Joined: 2/1/2008
    Posts: 32
    Location: Bellingham
    I caught your guest host spot yesterday and thought you really did well! I knew as soon as you mentioned roundabouts that would be the topic for the remainder of the show.

    I'm originally from the northeast so grew up with roundabouts in some major areas of some major cities. If you didn't learn the basics of it...you were toast! They'd just run you over. So...when they decided to put the roundabouts on Cordata, I was initially quite happy about the idea figuring driving that area (as I do every single day a couple of times per day) it would make my daily errands much more enjoyable. Boy...was I ever wrong! I truly believe people from these parts put the roundabout in the category of crosswalks, i.e., crosswalk means -- don't stop, don't look, just walk out into the road like you have car stopping armour on; roundabout means -- I don't have to stop, don't have to look, just keep driving at the same speed paying no attention to what lane I'm supposed to be in and everyone else better just look out! Ok...that may be a small exaggeration, but not totally incorrect in what goes on.

    In your examples, let's take the one for continuing straight. Were I to be the blue car...I'd have an accident every single day with the red car that really wants to go left. I have to be extra cautious every day going through there because I'm in the minority of knowing how to utilize the roundabout appropriately. The other day, I was in the middle of the roundabout and had to literally slam on my breaks and blow my horn because a person came flying into the roundabout right in front of me. She looked at me like I was the one that was in the wrong.

    I know you think they are helpful, and they would be if only the drivers cared to learn how to use them. Until area drivers can grasp the simplest fact that they have the right of way at the bottom of the exit ramp from I-5 to Meridian to get to the Telegraph signal and quit stopping for the Meridian drivers that want to turn right on Telegraph, I think we better wait a while for larger roundabouts. (I know the I-5/Meridian interchange doesn't have anything to do with a roundabout, but it is very frustrating when people don't understand the rules of those simple lanes, let alone roundabouts.)
    vbuys
    Posted: Friday, April 11, 2008 8:19:05 PM

    Rank: New Member
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    Joined: 12/23/2007
    Posts: 21
    Location: Lynden
    I have always been in awe at the lack of understanding in local drivers when it comes to roundabouts. I used to be against them, however a few years ago I went over to England and had a chance to drive through them personally...however, once back, I still hate OUR roundabouts. What miffs me about out roundabouts is they are much TOO small... I'm going to try and demonstrate what I mean and I'll try get some pics on here too... In England, on the majority of roundabouts that I drove, when you come to the roundabout, and in this case look to the right for traffic, if there was traffic at say the spur before yours, you would typically have time to merge into traffic. If it was past that spur you would typically wait. On the roundabouts in Cordata, you can't look only to the spur preceding yours, but also to the other two as the roundabout is so small that by the time you get into motion traffic from two spurs back is already on your tail. One must watch not only traffic in the roundabout, but also traffic on the previous two or more spurs. Then there is the whole issue of manuverability. In England, Roundabouts are made so that, traffic being clear, no slowdown is required to manuver the roundabout. In cordata, if you want to go straight, it's like a slalom course for cars, provided there is no traffic.

    now in pictures:
    1st roundabout north of Carnforth, UK:

    I'm providing this one in all fairness as it is basically the same size. However, notice how much more lead into the circle there is. On the let hand side, there is bus a small manuver required. Even the right side was much more manuverable than Cordata. Also, most roundabouts that I used did not have two "lanes" so to speak. Unless you were getting off on the first spur, you would head to the indise of the circle until you approached the spur you wished to exit on, in which case you would signal that you were heading to the outside and then out

    Here is the south roundabout on Cordata:


    2nd roundabout north of Carnforth, UK:

    This is a prime example of how a roundabout should be made...notice the sweeping turns into it...

    Roundabout south of Lancaster:

    One last prime example of an efficient roundabout...

    This is a great on/off ramp with a roundabout incorporated off of M6 near Carnforth, UK:



    Lastly, with regards to Brat's post:
    Quote:
    Until area drivers can grasp the simplest fact that they have the right of way at the bottom of the exit ramp from I-5 to Meridian to get to the Telegraph signal and quit stopping for the Meridian drivers that want to turn right on Telegraph


    This intersection has always annoyed the crap out off me...or at least the drivers that stop at the bottom out of ignorance, as well as the Meridian drivers who think that somehow they have the right-away to come into that lane right past the light. There needs to be some cones, a 20ft long curb or soemthing along there so that people realize it's not a merge or a yeild...grrrrr...
    DJGray
    Posted: Saturday, April 12, 2008 12:51:33 AM

    Rank: Administration
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    Joined: 1/11/2008
    Posts: 256
    Location: Bellingham, WA
    Brat wrote:
    Until area drivers can grasp the simplest fact that they have the right of way at the bottom of the exit ramp from I-5 to Meridian...


    AAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaauuuugh!!! Brat!! You NAILED it. That has SO annoyed me for years that I no longer take that exit. Seriously, I will go around Bellis Fair, or take the NW exit. There have been a number of times where in my hard-headedness, I have pulled right out in that lane, when I KNEW a car was moving into it. That's kind of dumb of me, but I've done it, figuring, when the mess is sorted out, the determination will have to be that I had the right of way.

    Alas, I've never had a crash there, but have been honked a few times.

    It is similar to those who are merging onto I-5, when you have a vehicle to the left of you, somehow they expect YOU to yield to THEM, when clearly the law and the signage read that those who are entering the freeway yield to those already on it.

    Man, Brat, you really hit a button with me on that one. Well done! Wink

    Mark Twain wrote:

    A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is putting its shoes on.

  • Mark Twain


  • Baron Miller wrote:

    Grace ruins the idea that you are fully in charge.

  • Baron Miller



  • Brat
    Posted: Sunday, April 13, 2008 12:11:06 AM

    Rank: New Member
    Groups: Member

    Joined: 2/1/2008
    Posts: 32
    Location: Bellingham
    DJGray wrote:
    It is similar to those who are merging onto I-5, when you have a vehicle to the left of you, somehow they expect YOU to yield to THEM, when clearly the law and the signage read that those who are entering the freeway yield to those already on it.


    You hit the other hot button for me! The definition of merging and who is responsible for doing it! When I'm on I-5 and approaching an on ramp, why do I now feel the need to adjust my driving for someone "merging" onto the freeway? They just assume you will be moving over to make room for them...what happens when you can't? Crash bang boom and I'm sure they'd all yell at me for not merging appropriately!! Hammer time

    I know what you mean about proving a point at the I-5/Meridian exchange...I've been known to do it a time or two. Snicker...
    Poindexter Prometheus Parkenfarker
    Posted: Saturday, April 19, 2008 11:45:19 AM

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    Joined: 1/9/2008
    Posts: 139
    Location: Zeta Reticuli
    Having spent quite some time in Scandanavia, I experienced many Roundabouts.
    Generally they are placed in the ouskirts of town and usually have a much larger radius than the little tiny ill designed ones around here. The one in Ferndale is the worst and most dangerously designed one, yet.
    That raised lip in what appears to be an inner lane has already caused a motorcycle crash that I am aware of (Not ME.) and I have heard second hand accounts about several other mishaps due to the raised inner area that from a distance appears to be an inner lane.
    These traffic sorting devices are much more effective when used travelling from one town to another, rather than being placed in high traffic suburban or downtown areas.

    You better laugh at yourself,
    Everyone else is.

    www.parkenfarkergroup.blogspot.com
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